Teaching advice

[Lee Collins]

I'm interested to know what you guys think of certain aspects of teaching. 3 things in particular: speed a student plays an exercise, counting aloud and hand position/grip. I'm very fussy about insisting on all 3 things but I'm starting to wonder if I'm being a bit too rigid about them.

First off, these students aren't experienced players and for the most part, aren't what I would call natural or gifted players. They're secondary school students who happen to quite like drums and choose it as one of their instruments for school exams.

I find that a lot of students keep making mistakes when playing various beats and fills. Very simple beats and fills to us lot at HoD but not to these students. Fair enough. So I tell them to slow it down and more often than not they then get through the exercise without a mistake. The problem in a lot of cases is that many students just can't seem to play at 'dead' slow tempos. I mean, REALLY slow. They play the hihat part, IMO, faster than their brain can keep up with the whole pattern, and don't seem to be able to leave enough space between each hihat stroke in order to analyse each new part of the beat or fill coming their way. Should I keep insisting that they play everything in 'slow motion' until they get it, or leave them at their own comfortable speed until they get it, even if it takes them ages? Bear in mind, many don't practise much, maybe because they don't own a kit, or they can't get into the drum room at the schools much, or they're plain lazy.

Counting aloud. I always insist that they count every 1/4, 1/8th and 1/16th note out loud as they play, yet most of them say they don't like doing it, they find it too hard. They'll give it a go, but before they've reached the second bar, they've stopped counting or they've ended up mumbling it to themselves. They may still get through the exercise without counting, but I still think they should count aloud for better accuracy and better understanding of what they're playing. How much do you think I should keep insisting?

Hand position. While many maintain a correct grip, lots of them tend to let their hands or maybe just their right hand turn/drop sideways, such as playing the hihat or ride or even going to the floor tom. I prefer palms down all the way. Also, some of them don't maintain the correct fulcrum, so they'll close the gap between thumb and index and the stick ends up in the middle indent of their finger instead of the first. I know terry bozzio uses that too as his 'powergrip' but I'm not sure whether I should encourage or discourage it since I always strive to maintain first indent and thumb fulcrum. What do you think?

[XNavyDrummer]

Good questions Rudy. Regarding the slow tempo situation, I've found over the past few years that using a metronome with (a very annoying) voice counting in quarters, eighths or sixteenths has been extremely helpful in executing passages at "painfully slow" tempos. As they master the tempo, I gradually increase the metronome. I'm doing hour lessons now and sometime will spend up to three quarters of the lesson just on one difficult passage. I also do the same with play-along CDs where I'll loop the problem section and slow it way down. This has proven to be a very successful technique and I think it builds the students confidence. They leave the lesson knowing that with time and attention to detail they can master some difficult things.

[LDGuy]

Being a student, i'll have a go, but don't quote me on this... hehehe...

1. I think many students tend to have a problem with playing EXACTLY what's written. Some just can't, but others don't want to. So the teacher comes up with the "studio" situation thingy. Yeah sure i'll play the thing. Ah. I made a mistake. Oh well. Students don't want to play like that, and often it's a subconcious thing. I've never met anyone other than me who practices to sight read. I mean really sight read, note for note shit. But IMO that's the only way your gonna get signed to do your sessions (even if they are paying you shit all!). You gotta play that thing and you've got to make it sound good, and you gotta do it fast and in one take. That only comes with practice, and if your guy can't do that then he should seriously think about continuing drumming. IMO anyway. Lol.

2. This is one of the areas which bothers me. Weckl talks about this in his Natural Evolution vids. I would never be in a situation when counting aloud would be a good thing to do. When your playing live, no. When your in the studio, no. When your writing with your band, no. Why should it be something that should be practiced then? IMO, the drummer should be able to play what's written on the page without the need to count 1e+a2e+a3e etc., because being able to play anything, but when counting, won't help you. Instead, i sing parts. I don't mean sing as in with melody, but rather to create drum sounds in a rhythmic pattern - boom-dack-babooboomdack... I do this when reading a chart for the first time having not seen it before. I know it sounds weird, but i find it a lot better than counting when playing. You've already visualised what your gonna play, so you're halfway there already.

3. Right. Hand position. Everybody has their own version. Myself, i play palms down, as though i am playing classical snare drum, because thats how i practice rudements. To be honest, though, i rarely stay in the same position for long, and mostly that's because of the thing i'm playing on or comfort. But it can get bad. My friend at school has the worst drumstick holding technique i have ever seen. I hate watching him play, and i get the horrible "gig" feeling that makes me want to rip the drumsticks out of his hands and say "NO NO NO NO NO!!! WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOUR DOING????" But i don't really think it's his fault. He's got good intentions, wants to practice his rudements and sight reading (although he did say he wanted to get his double bass so fast it hums). I just think no one has really told him how he should play, and no one has stopped him from playing wrong. Strangely, he has a really relaxed grip in his left hand (almost halfway up the stick) yet still manages to play really stiffly. I think it also has bad effects on his timing, because every so often he'll miss a beat if i'm jamming with him, which makes him a right bugger to play with. But he has potential, but has been slightly spoilt. I don't know who his teacher was before, but i dont think he was very good. Hand technique is one of the most important things about your playing. If you don't get it right within the first year of playing, it can be really difficult to continue, and playing badly becomes a habit. Saying that, there are no rules, and if its comfortable and easy to play, then your own technique is always an option. I just try and remember that established techniques have been established for a reason....

HTH

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 15, 2005 06:48 PM: Message edited by: LDGuy ]</font>

[Dazzler]

Very interesting Rudy, I've had to think about those same points in my teaching recently and have actually changed my tack a bit as a result.
What we have to remember is that the majority of the secondry school students we teach, as you mentioned will not end up being professional drummers and our job is to make lessons both musical and fun for them.

I suffer the same problems as you are facing and it's because we are both pationate about the drums and care about the music that we create. To my detriment, I was too beligerant about getting across to my students the points you've raised, even to 10/11 year old kids. I think that there comes a point where you have to say to yourself, 'this child just isn't gonna get this' and for the sake of their enjoyment as well as your sanity, you have to move on.

It's also good to remember that this is our job and we don't want to lose our students for the sake of drilling in a counting excersise to a boy whose clearly got the rhythmic skills of a snail.

The ones who do have a natural flair for the instrument stand out and are an absolute joy to teach, it's just a fact that for the majority of the students we teach, it's simply a whim and something to take them out of science!

[Lee Collins]

Originally posted by Dazzler:

drilling in a counting excersise to a boy whose clearly got the rhythmic skills of a snail.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL! So true dazzler. Looks like you and me teach basically the same standard of school students. You're right, we do need to keep it as fun as possible. On the other hand, there's pressure from schools that students need to perform a piece fairly regularly at the end of a term or for GCSE, and there's also the ocassional parent who's fussy about what their kid is taught. So I'm forced to teach these kids from a more academic point even when I know they just want to play a few rock beats. If I had it my way, it would be fun pretty much all the way for the students that aren't really that talented or who are, as you rightly said, using drum lessons as an excuse for simply getting out of science or maths. You're also right that there's a point where I need to move on if the student isn't getting something. Yet I also feel guilty or that I've not taught them properly if I do leave them to their bad habits or, own way of doing something that perhaps isn't playing with the best form.

LDGuy, as far as counting aloud, I only try to get them to do it in order to 'ingrain' notation in their mind as well as improve their understanding of timing in relation to what they're reading. So I see it as just something for practising with, not to necessarily use in a real world playing situation.

[Don Worth]

I teach and I like the kid who says I dont like to count or I like the I wont count. Kids today get so much slack in school that they think they can get away with that stuff in private lessons. I tell them I don't care what you don't like but we are going to do it my way. Most students idea of slow is a medium tempo rock beat and have never even thought of playing at 80 let alone 60 bpm. I use the counting out loud on the pad and basic snare drum stuff but still ask them to count it out loud on set when notes do not line up and is all uneven. At least when they count out loud they hear themselves speeding up there talking and does make sense to count and play.

[Lee Collins]

Originally posted by Don Worth:
. Most students idea of slow is a medium tempo rock beat and have never even thought of playing at 80 let alone 60 bpm. .

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed. The tempo that I mean though when getting them to play dead slow on say a regular 1/8th note 2 and 4 beat, is where the hihat 1/8th notes are equal to about 63 to 66bpm. Not with a metronome, just a rough tempo for them to play at. It's the space between 1/8th notes at that tempo that they don't seem to be able to maintain and so they want to speed it up, like a ferarri that doesn't wanna hold back and is raring to go.

Originally posted by Don Worth:
but still ask them to count it out loud on set when notes do not line up and is all uneven. At least when they count out loud they hear themselves speeding up there talking and does make sense to count and play.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah. Today in fact, a student had a fill to play on snare and first tom,( dazzler might know it if he teaches guildhall grade 1 piece 'poppy') which was:

1 e +, 2 e +, 3_+ a, 4 +
He kept playing the '4 +' as '4e', so rushing the '+'. I got him to put the sticks down, and say 'yo-gi-bear, yo-gi-bear, bugs_bun-ny su-san'. He said it all in time, and then when he played it with the sticks, still saying those words, he got it right. Thank god, cos it was driving me nuts, and this kid has been playing 1/4s, 1/8ths and 1/16ths for some time now.


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[ntbCreative]

in regards to tempo.........i make em play with a click and i always get them to count off........i mean every exercise!
hand position........i tell them to drop their sticks to their side then pick em up and ...VOILA!!!...they will figure out if its uncomfy or not by noticing they can execute certain things.
as far as playin slow...if its an advanced or intermediate student...they already know the importance of this method...but if its some kid who wants to just play.......i pick his fave tune and rip it apart and then show him it fast so its jungle or drum and bass......slow swing so its jazz and then play it 1 drop so its reggae and so on....just from their 1 song.
I get them to play it over and over..try to develop a groove or pocket...and i tell them...not to concentrate on how it sounds...more on how it feels...pay attention how long it takes to get to one surface to the next and keep you body motion consitant...dance when you play!!!
I have a rule...if a student can read......toss the books cause its a crutch for them...if they cant but can play...1e+a....lol
so there you have my teachin philosophy..........i make sure they have fun..after all...is that what its supose to be about?

[Vdrummer]

LDGuy, you are wrong about counting. Your approach presupposes you know the rhythm you're attempting. If you do, you don't need to do anything. Counting allows you to decipher and learn rhythms you havent' seen before, find errors faster, and get keep patterns in time. You also need to maintain your grip and hand position. There may be subtle changes within your hands as you execute buzzes, diddles, etc. but those are rarely visible. If it's hard to do, it may mean you're developing your muscles. Good luck.

The students who don't think they know anything about drums, and do what I ask (count, keep their palms down, control the stick) make remarkable progress sometimes, and always outperform students with the mindset that they know better. I get adults or older teens who've wasted so much time, ingrained bad habits to the level they may never catch up with their peers. Grip, counting, transcribing, nailing a click, and being able to play a long exercise without an error are all the skills drummers must do if they want to play after High School, especially professionally. If they just want to play in a rock or punk band, I suppose it really doesn't matter if they can do more than that one thing.

[Don Worth]

I agree that if you already know the pattern counting out loud is not needed. Buit, if you cannot figure out the pattern or your not sure why it does not sound right. COUNT OUT LOUD....and use a metronome. I have a new student for probably the last 6 months, older guy that did the PIT thing a few years back. Takes an hour every week and told me last week that in the first 10 min I have fixed his problem, solved other things he did not even know about and needs to go home and practice right now.......told him, we can still find more stuff to fix.... [img]graemlins/smarty.gif[/img] It is exactly correct that when the student does and uses all the tools you have given them , they progress right along. It does take them to figure out that if I do what Don tells me, it actually gets better now......not like my friends at school that are still trying to get an even single stroke roll. Glad to hear that teachers are making them count out loud and learn to hold there sticks correct.......YEAH........ [img]graemlins/beer.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/pizza.gif[/img] on me!!!!